Best NTSC 29.97fps workflow?

I am in early preproduction on a project. I would like to shoot it with the 5d. I'm trying to figure out the best workflow to deal with these #*^$#@$! 30p files from Canon. I can only think of two options. I am assuming, by the way, that I will be preparing the video for broadcast, and therefor have an exact sequence duration to edit to. I plan on recording audio to an external device (ZoomH4N).

METHOD A:
1. Conform all h.264 clips to 29.97 using Cinema Tools.
2. Make proxies with MPEG Streamclip.
3. Edit proxies in FCP
4. Relink h.264 files.
5. Render output file in Compressor.

The problem with this method is that I will have to adjust EACH audio clip (recorded on a Zoom) to fit the conformed originals, as the conformed video clips will be slightly longer. Major pain.

1. Make proxies with MPEG Streamclip.
2. Edit proxies in FCP
3. Relink h.264 files.
4. Render output file in Compressor.
5. Conform output file in Cinema Tools.

The problem with this is that I have to calculate how much longer to make my sequence, so that it will come out to the intended duration after I conform the final output. This seems like less work to me, so it is how I plan to proceed.

The only other option I can think of would be to record all audio on the 5d with the Beachtek preamp (I would rather not be wired to my mics if I can avoid it though). Of course I can wait until the "first half of 2010" for the next firmware update (lol).

Does anyone have any other ideas?

What bout edit in 30p from MPEG streamclip, export it in 30p and then conform? =)

I've learned since writing this that Mpeg Streamclip is fast, but there is a noticeable gamma shift in the transcoded files.

That said, I have been working out a solution to this drop frame problem. I will be recording my audio in camera, using ML and a Zoom H4N as a preamp (see the audio section, there's a long thread on this topic). I suffer a little with rig clutter, but it's worth the convenience. Now I can conform the h.264 files immediately after download, then transcode them in media manager. A quick test shows this works well. I can then edit and color grade from the ProRes files, whether I proxy or not.

BTW, there are other threads about the 30fps/29.97fps frame rate issue with the 5D. It's not clear to me if the camera is recording with drop frame or not, but it is definitely logging the headers with 30fps. Conforming them will take care of the problem either way, ad having the audio track in the h.264 file saves lots of time and some disk space.

Transcode H.264 files off of the 5D into ProRes 422 LT or XDCAM EX in MPEGStreamclip. Frame size of 1920 x 1080 unscaled. Frame rate scaling to 29.97. Then import the transcoded files into your NLE. Now you can edit natively in 29.97. Do your sound sync with your Zoom files. Then export your finished timeline in your native timeline codec (ProRes 422 LT or XDCAM EX). Then you can transcode back to H.264 either with compressor or whatever. I do this everyday for my 5D workflow at the studio.

Bit of a threadjack, what would be the best way if you've completed editing all in 30P timeline? Use compressor?

I have just finished an edit in Apple Pro Res 422 1920x1080 @ 30p and need to prepare a sequence at 29.97 to be output to HDCAM for the dub house. Is there anyone that has done this successfully that can share the workflow?

Thanks,
Stacey

Just open your clip in Cinema Tools, and conform it to 29.97fps. Ignore the open database dialog box when you first open the app by clicking cancel. Then just go to File/Open/ and select your finished file.

You might want to add just a bit of black at the end of your master in case the frame drops cause a slight mis-timing in your footage. Expect that if your content is more than a minute long, you might see some drift in your audio sync. This will get progressively worse over time unless you manually add duplicate frames occasionally or re-render your sequence in drop frame format.

That said, I don't ever recommend people edit and master in non-drop frame within NTSC countries. Analog TV's and standard def DVD's won't even recognize a non-drop signal. Convert your raw clips using this same technique using CinemaTools' Batch conform option before starting your edit. But that's been said 1000's of times here.

Thanks for the thread discussion. I've found it informative...although, problematic.

Here's what I've found with my 5d 30p footage transcoded to 29.97

Mpeg streamclip => Prores LT 29.97 = Dropped Frames
Compressor => Prores LT 29.97 = Dropped Frames


Does anyone know of a better solution to get to 29.97 with your raw footage? I'm editing a 22 minute show and would rather not deal with the drift mentioned with using cinema tools.

Thanks,
Frank

I may have just answered part of my own question...

The trial version of Neo Scene fixed the drop frame and gamma shift problems quite nicely. However, it seems to have generated it's own timecode (which is different from the timecodes on the same clip transcoded with Mpeg and compressor).

I don't know if it's reading more metadata that's buried in the source footage or what. I'm unfortunately half way through a 22 minute rough cut using footage transcoded to 29.97 with streamclip ...and hence, dropping frames. I was hoping to find a successful transcode workflow and just replace the footage later, but if the timecodes change, I suspect I'm pretty hosed on that approach.

Anyone run into this problem? Or better yet, have an answer?

cheers
Frank