Arri MFF-1/MMB-1 vs. RedRock vs. Zacuto vs. Chrosziel

Hey guys,

Greetings! I just joined, and just got my 7D - loving it! I'm trying to build a full cinema style package and I'm debating over the solutions that Arri, RedRock, Zacuto, and Chrosziel have currently released. I'm looking for rails, follow focus, and matte box. I'd love to get a system that can also handle rigging up a Marshall 7" HDMI monitor. Think studio rig, I'm not looking for a handheld solution just yet, although a few weeks down the line that may be an option, so I want to sort of future-proof whichever support/rails/etc I get to support the new gear. I've already got an O'Conner 1030HD fluid head/tripod system ready to rumble.

So far I'm leaning towards an Arri package. It's certainly more expensive than the competition, but it's Arri. RedRock and Zacuto, from what I've seen, have had relatively lower build quality. For example, while I like Zacuto for things like their lens gears and Z-Finder (I've heard talk of a mini version being released early 2010, anyone also hear chatter about that?), but I would never trust their handheld guerilla kits.

I've noticed that each of the vendors in LA have sort of partnered up with different solutions - AbelCineTech is using Arri gear, Alan Gordan is renting RedRock, Birns & Sawyer is using Chrosziel... Next week I'm going to try and get into each and see a rental unit fully built.

But has anyone had any experience using Arri's support, DSLR riser, rails, MFF-1 and MMB-1 combination? Or can anyone whose recently been through a similar debate speak to their decisions and why?

Thanks in advance, this has been a great resource for the past few weeks as I've researched the camera and the community. Hope you all had a great Thanksgiving!

I've already got an O'Conner 1030HD fluid head/tripod system ready to rumble.

You bought a $1600 7D and put it on a $7000 head/tripod designed to hold 50lb cameras? You could have spent less than half of that on a nice Sachtler that would hold 20lbs and been "future proof."

Was with someone last week who has tried the ARRI. His words were 'it might be bombproof for rental - that does not mean its the most suitable for purpose'.

You bought a $1600 7D and put it on a $7000 head/tripod designed to hold 50lb cameras? You could have spent less than half of that on a nice Sachtler that would hold 20lbs and been "future proof."

Your facts are little misshaped, but yes, I could have done what you suggested. But I didn't. Go find a guy with a $17,500 camera body and ask him how much money he actually spent on the accessories, support, glass, monitoring, etc. to make it useful. The body of a camera is always going to be your smallest expense. I come from a cine background, and if you've ever used an O'Conner system, you'd understand why it was the natural first and only choice. The camera's cost is nominal, but its image quality is worth thousands more. Now if you want to put cheap tripods or 75mm heads underneath your camera, go for it - I encourage you to use whatever you feel most comfortable with. For me, that's an O'Conner system. Now, I appreciate your criticisms, but the discussion at hand here is not fluid heads or support.

Back to rails/FF/MB/etc. While I'd be more interested in hearing personal accounts from the many users out there, I know there are a few representatives from each of these companies on this board, maybe they can also speak to the advantages of their rigs?

Was with someone last week who has tried the ARRI. His words were 'it might be bombproof for rental - that does not mean its the most suitable for purpose'.

Can you elaborate on 'purpose'? What do you mean? I agree that they make a rental much more advantageous. Eventually I'll be renting the camera out, and maybe even buying up a Scarlet (if they ever get released...), thus the reason I'm looking for long-term gear. But was the implication that while the Arri gear looks great on paper, it's not as good in the field?

He felt that they had initially looked at the camera, dismissed the initial 'this thing is fabulous' by various pundits, observed Redrock and Zacuto (and heard about a lot of other manufacturers setting about designing kit), dismissed that then had a few quite serious DOP's tell them they should not dismiss it and backed into a corner rushed something out that if they had spent a little more time on it from the outset would have built something much more suitable for the task in hand rather than something, slightly adapted, straight from ARRI 35mm - and was a 'complete purpose designed' system. The world of 35mm was so expensive that probably 99% of kit was always going to be rental. DSLR kit is not. It's affordable (though I am not suggesting it's cheap) for 'one man band' operations that maybe you can produce a piece of kit, that looked after, (ie not in the rental domain) can be built smoother, lighter and cheaper - in effect better.

Very well put. That being said, I started to look more seriously at RR's designs. Particularly when applied in this fashion: http://www.cinema5d.com/viewtopic.php?f=65&t=7538&st=0&sk=t&sd=a can be a really powerful kit, and much less expensive. Do you own a 5D/7D? If so, what are you currently using?

I would also say you should consider the Cinevate Durus. I bought one a few months back. Took a month to get it from backorder.

Damn thing is built like tank. I actually use it as my left handle when shooting handheld. It really is that strong. Superb gearing. It attaches to one rail with no issue at all on 15mm rails.

Sure it's a grand in cost, but I won't ever need to buy another, that's for sure.

Hi Adam,

There's a reason the Arri mattebox and follow focus cost more. They are the best currently on the market. And yes, they have rental house build quality. It is worth pointing out that the prices are actually a bit higher that how they appear on-line, as the MB needs step down rings and the FF doesn't come with a whip or crank (most don't, but I figure it's worth mentioning).

While some people don't need professional level quality and use-ability, others (particularly those who make a living with their equipment, or plan to) find that level mandatory. The O'Connor 1030 is a fantastic tripod. And like you said, the camera is the least expensive part of the puzzle and when you invest in quality accessories you become future-proof.

While I don't recommend it, I once saw a Cartoni Gamma take a tumble down 1.5 flights of stairs, it had some serious scratches and scrapes, but was able to keep on working. For comparison I've seen at least 3x Sachtler V20 tripods break their tilt lock lever during normal use.

Hot Rod Cameras builds all it's products to be compatible with Arri lightweight standard 15mm rod specs, and the Hot Rod CSH is 100% compatible with the MMB1 and MFF1 and a 7D.

Your facts are little misshaped, but yes, I could have done what you suggested. But I didn't. Go find a guy with a $17,500 camera body and ask him how much money he actually spent on the accessories, support, glass, monitoring, etc. to make it useful. The body of a camera is always going to be your smallest expense. I come from a cine background, and if you've ever used an O'Conner system, you'd understand why it was the natural first and only choice. The camera's cost is nominal, but its image quality is worth thousands more. Now if you want to put cheap tripods or 75mm heads underneath your camera, go for it - I encourage you to use whatever you feel most comfortable with. For me, that's an O'Conner system. Now, I appreciate your criticisms, but the discussion at hand here is not fluid heads or support.

I assume you're insinuating that Red users use the 1030HD so you should since you have a "cine" background. Guess what they use them because that camera with all the accessories and big PL mount glass weigh alot. A 7D does not. You realize that the only advantage of that Oconnor over a lower priced tripod like a Sachtler or Vinten is the fact that is supports more weight. It wont be any smoother. You could put every accessory known to man on that 7D and it wouldn't approach half of what it was designed to hold. The only thing you will accomplish is having to carry around a heavy tripod. Also the Sachtlers are 100mm bowls and far from cheap. Why stop with the 1030HD? Why not go for the 2575 or go all the way and just get a Geared Arri head since thats the most "cine." I would think someone of your discerning tastes and "cine" background would know all that and have the top of the line Matte Box/FF picked out.