Canon White Paper Claims.

To Canon

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To whom it may concern.

We recently bought the new Canon 5D mkII specifically for the advertised video functionality and to replace our Canon HV20 and HV30 camcorders. We were sufficiently impressed with samples we had seen and the features outlined in your 'Canon 5DmkII WHITE PAPER' to decide on the camera.

But I must say I was somewhat disappointed to find that the video mode has been entirely automated with only an auto-exposure lock and an exposure compensation dial to brighten or darken the image. What this dial controls (aperture / ISO / shutter speed) is not under the user's control and varies depending on what the camera selects.

Simply put, the user has no control over what aperture is chosen when in video mode, the camera meters the scene and makes a selection for you - removing creative choice and - crucially - removing control over your depth-of-field.

This seems to negate the claims made by Canon.

Please take a look at this extract from the Canon 5D mkII WHITE PAPER: (page 6)

>>". . . photographers and videographers can capture high definition video with **depth-of-field control found only in professional video models**—using much more affordable Canon EF lenses including fisheye, ultra-wide, and image stabilized lenses."<<

It clearly makes the claim that not only does the camera offer control over the depth-of-field, but such that it can be compared with the kind of control normally exclusive to 'professional video models'.

The thing is - that without control over aperture, there is no control over the depth of field, not just that the control is less than 'professional', but that there is none whatsoever.

The WHITE PAPER concludes (on the final page) with the same claim:

>>"Alternatively, professional videographers will be drawn to the EOS 5D Mark II’s unique depth of field control"<<

This once again unambiguously makes the claim that there is control over the depth-of-field, indeed - to a level that would be of interest to 'professional videographers' rather than the actual reality of the situation which is: no control at all over depth-of-field.

For the moment we have followed the lead of many technical savvy videographers we have spoken to online, and are planning to buy Nikon lenses (with a Nikon to EOS adaptor) as these lenses have a manual aperture ring and allow full control over depth of field.

This a less than ideal solution as features such as auto-focus, Image stabilization and metering are lost, but at the end of the day it is the depth of field that a large sensor and 35mm lenses offer that is this camera's real draw and less so these other features (something your marketing people are aware of, if not entirely accurate in their promotion).

So . . . .

This leads me to a question:

Is there a firmware update planned that will address this limitation ?








Thanks for taking the time to read this rather long letter.

All the best

XXXXXXXXX (me)


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Response from Canon

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Dear XXXXXXXX (me)

Thank you for writing to us with your feedback. We appreciate you
taking the time to share your comments with us regarding the EOS 5D Mark
II.

The exposure compensation setting will tell the camera to adjust the
exposure, not exactly whether it should adjust the aperture or ISO
speed. The camera will vary the aperture and ISO speed automatically
based on what it determines is best. Unfortunately, we do not have any
information regarding future versions of the firmware for your EOS 5D
Mark II.

We have forwarded your comments to Canon USA through our Customer
Feedback process. This process allows us to capture important feedback
from our valued customers. As we constantly strive to improve our
products and services, your comments are vital to our continued success.

For important product updates, including available drivers and product
notifications, please visit Canon's Web site at
www.usa.canon.com/consumer.

Please let us know if we can be of any further assistance with the EOS
5D Mark II.

Thank you for choosing Canon.

Sincerely,

XXXXXXX
Technical Support Representative


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My reply to Canon


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Hi XXXXXXX

Thank you for your quick response.

You say:

> The exposure compensation setting will tell the camera to adjust the
> exposure, not exactly whether it should adjust the aperture or ISO
> speed. The camera will vary the aperture and ISO speed automatically
> based on what it determines is best.

I am aware of this, in fact it's the very thing I am pointing out !! (You missed shutter speed out of the equation, it is also another unknown that compounds the issue.)

Can I conclude from this reply that the claim of depth-of-field control (indeed, professionally so) in the Canon 5D mkII WHITE PAPER is incorrect and in reality there is no depth-of-field control ?

All the best.

XXXXXXX (me)


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Canon's reply


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Dear XXXXXXX (me)

We appreciate your continued correspondence regarding the EOS 5D Mark
II.

We are sorry for any confusion, but what is stated in the White Papers
for the EOS 5D Mark II and the surrounding details is only describing
the fact that the EOS 5D Mark II has a much greater ability to control
the depth of field by using certain lenses because of the nature of an
SLR camera, which is far greater than most HD camcorders are capable of.
The aperture itself is controlled by the camera directly and it is not
intended to imply that the aperture can be manually controlled by the
user. Once again, we apologize for any confusion this caused.

Please let us know if we can be of any further assistance with the EOS
5D Mark II.

Thank you for choosing Canon.

Sincerely,

XXXXXXX
Technical Support Representative


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My reply to Canon


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Hi XXXXXXX

Once again I must say I appreciate your prompt response, most large companies are notoriously slow when dealing with customers enquires online, it is refreshing to see company as large as Canon deal so swiftly with it's customer's issues.

Back to the point at hand, if I read your response correctly it appears to be saying that a (D)SLR will give you a greater depth-of-field than most HD camcorders.

I do not disagree with that, it is axiomatic if we consider the size of the 5D's sensor compared to a typical HD camcorder.

But my question is about the claims for 'control' of depth-of-field. You say that the 5D mkII has "a much greater ability to control the depth of field by using certain lenses". To be clear: imagine I have a person framed against a suitable background (let us imagine some trees for instance) - now let's imagine that the camera chooses a relatively high f stop (necessarily negating a shallow depth-of-field) how would you suggest I proceed to achieve a shallow depth-of-field, to utilise the 'greater ability to control the depth of field' that the 5D has ?

Any help greatly appreciated.


XXXXXXX (me)


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Canon's reply


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Dear XXXXXXXXXX

We appreciate your continued correspondence regarding the EOS 5D Mark
II.

If it becomes necessary for the camera to choose an aperture that will
actually widen the depth-of-field instead of making in more shallow,
there is no setting on the camera that would allow you to manually
override that decision and choose a wide aperture for shallow
depth-of-field. The information in the White Papers is saying that
because this is an EOS camera and you have a wide selection of lenses to
choose from, you can use a lens that would normally provide extremely
shallow depth-of-field because it has such a wide maximum aperture, such
as the EF 85mm f/1.2L II USM lens. Using such a lens will give the
camera a better range of control of the depth-of-field, but does not
ensure that it will be able to use the widest aperture at all times.

Please let us know if we can be of any further assistance with the EOS
5D Mark II.

Thank you for choosing Canon.

Sincerely,

XXXXXXXXXXX
Technical Support Representative


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My reply to Canon


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Hi XXXXXXXX

You say:

> If it becomes necessary for the camera to choose an aperture that will
> actually widen the depth-of-field instead of making in more shallow,
> there is no setting on the camera that would allow you to manually
> override that decision and choose a wide aperture for shallow
> depth-of-field.

Would you agree with me when I say that by this answer we are saying that the 5D mkII offers no user control over the depth-of-field ?

You also say:

> you can use a lens that would normally provide extremely shallow
> depth-of-field because it has such a wide maximum aperture.

But the 5D mkII will not allow you to select this maximum aperture, simply put lens choice will not offer *"extremely shallow depth-of-field because it has such a wide maximum aperture"* because the choice of aperture is not predicated on the maximum aperture but what the camera has metered.

Here is a simple question to illustrate my point:

I am shooting a scene and my camera has decided on f11, I am using a f4 lens, but would like a shallower depth-of-field.

So I take off this lens and replace it with an f1.2, what would you suppose the camera will now choose as it's f stop ? . . .

. . . Of course the question is largely rhetorical, as we both know the amount of light hitting the sensor (at f11) has not changed and this is what the camera will choose - f11 - just like it choose f11 on the f4 lens because aperture choice is predicated on the metering system not on what lens you have chosen. So not only will lens choice not give you any *control* over depth-of-field, it will not even give you a *shallower* depth-of-field in the same situation as a slower lens.

So, and apologies for being so persistent, where might I look to find the *'depth-of-field control [of the kind] found only in professional video models'* ? I genuinely cannot see any depth-of-field control at all, even with your suggestion that it might come through lens choice, which we can show to be erroneous.

Set up a scene, the camera chooses f11 - you cannot alter this - swap the lens from an f4 to a faster f1.2 - reframe the scene - result the camera chooses f11 - you cannot alter this.

Where here is the control over depth-of-field ? How should I proceed to lower the depth-of-field, or is there simply no control over the depth-of-field ?



All the best

XXXXXXX (me).

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[ralph-FR]

Suicide is not a game. Lee, please stop harrassing that poor tech support person with your stubborn emails

More seriously, it's embarrassing to say the least. I think I'll do the same with Canon France, just for fun.

Suicide is not a game. Lee, please stop harrassing that poor tech support person with your stubborn emails

I haven't even started !

More seriously, it's embarrassing to say the least. I think I'll do the same with Canon France, just for fun.

Go for it Ralph ! Give them some * ! Hopefully word will start to get around that the people are not happy !!